AB's third annual open-ended conversation with applicants and parents at Dartmouth's admitted student open house offers insights and tips from those who have just navigated a successful college search. AB host and Dartmouth Dean Lee Coffin and recurring cohost Jacques Steinberg field wide-ranging comments and questions about admissions-induced procrastination, the value of authenticity in storytelling, and stress management in the face of looming deadlines and decisions. As one student observes, "Trust yourself, because you know yourself best."
AB's third annual open-ended conversation with applicants and parents at Dartmouth's admitted student open house offers insights and tips from those who have just navigated a successful college search. AB host and Dartmouth Dean Lee Coffin and recurring cohost Jacques Steinberg field wide-ranging comments and questions about admissions-induced procrastination, the value of authenticity in storytelling, and stress management in the face of looming deadlines and decisions. As one student observes, "Trust yourself, because you know yourself best."
Lee Coffin:
Live from the Admitted Student Open House at Dartmouth College, I'm Lee Coffin, Dartmouth's vice president and dean of admission and financial aid. Today we welcome students, parents, supporters, who are at the Accepted Student Open House at Dartmouth to do our third, I guess, annual since we've done it three times in a row, live audience episode.
(applause)
I'm joined again by Jacques Steinberg, former New York Times editor and reporter, author of The Gatekeepers, author of The College Conversation with Eric Furda, formerly of Penn. Jacques, welcome back.
Jacques Steinberg:
Oh, it's so good to be here, Lee, and it's so great to see all of you. We imagine you as we record the podcast, and there you are, some of you right in front of us.
Lee Coffin:
It is fun to see people, I have to say. As a performer, I am used to being on a stage looking at faces as I speak. And if I'm boring, you tell me I'm boring. If I'm funny, you laugh. But on a pod, you don't see that. We do what we do and we put it out there and it's wonderful to have a room full of you who can have a conversation with us today. So what we thought we'd do is start with some questions from Jacques to me and then we'll turn it over to you to pose questions to Jacques and me about your journey through college admissions as students and parents and we're excited to see where we go.
Jacques Steinberg:
So in a minute, Lee, as you said, we're going to turn the microphones over to the parents and students who are arrayed in front of us for their advice. But just to prime the pump a bit, you just finished offering invitations to the class of 2029. We're going to be asking our guests for their advice and what they learned. But first, what are some of your takeaways from this year's process, specifically thinking of those high school juniors and parents who are coming next?
Lee Coffin:
I keep saying this to myself, as much as anyone, that things have changed around the landscape of college admission, but things have stayed remarkably steady. And it's easy to see headlines that make your blood pressure spike, or the idea that volume is at historic levels, or selectivity has never been tighter. And yet, the people in this room navigated that successfully. It is possible to apply to college, get accepted, get a financial aid award when that's part of it. And in the best April possible, have choice, to have a couple of offers or more to be thinking about. And that through line, whether it's 2025, 2015, if I go all the way back to when I was a baby admission officer in 1990, that's still true.
And we read files, the way we read files, we met students one by one. We read the essays and the recommendations and we synthesized a story. We came to meet people where they are, and then in a selective environment, we shaped a community. And here we are in April at the last step of that shaping where the admission officers have made the decision, invited people to join us, and now the students are the ones shaping their own community because their decision to say yes to the offer creates the class.
Jacques Steinberg:
What did you learn about the high school graduating class of '25, you and your colleagues in their own words, in their stories that they told you?
Lee Coffin:
I don't know that the '25s are different than the '24s or the '23s. I am blessed to work at a college where the pool is big, deep, talented, and interesting. That remains true this year as well as previous years. What I see is students who do this well, owning their narrative in a way that is clear and unapologetic. From time to time, a student will say to me, "I don't like to brag." And I say, "Let it rip." This is your time to tell us who you are, what you care about. So we could bake that into the decision. If you don't tell us, you're depending on someone else to tell us. But the Common App, which is our platform at Dartmouth and at hundreds of other places, remains the Common App from many, many years ago.
And that platform for the next class, when it goes live on August 1st, we start looking for the class of 2030, they'll have the same opportunity the class of 2025 had and the ones before that, which is use each piece to tell your story in your own words so that you're not leaving anything out. If you want me to know something, where does it fit in the story? And I think this year's class did that really well. And there's something also very appealing about high school students is they may be nervous, but their optimism still bubbles through and they proceeded into this cycle with the same forward-looking spirit that I've seen before.
Jacques Steinberg:
I had to take a breath to hear the college class of 2030. Those of you here with us, students and parents, think about those who are coming behind you, the high school juniors and their families as I mentioned. What would you want them to know that you had learned? And also what would you tell your younger selves, your selves from a year ago that you wish you had known?
Adam:
I'm Adam from Needham, Massachusetts. For us, the admissions process felt very myopic. The entire time, it was about getting in and everything optimized to get in. And it wasn't until this morning where I heard everyone was selected for a reason and everyone will thrive here. And it was really refreshing to hear that. And I think that what I would offer to those who are parents of juniors in high school is that there's another side of this and then you'll be thinking about the next four years, wherever they are, and they'll be selected because they'll thrive somewhere. And I didn't think about that at all during the process and it was a bundle of nerves and I feel like this morning was the first time that I could breathe and it was really refreshing to hear you say that my student will thrive here, so thank you.
Lee Coffin:
Yeah, you're welcome. And the hidden truth of every place, reading every file, is we're looking for people to enroll who will do well where we are, and some places have a lot of students who meet that criteria, and then you have to be more selective as you shape. Other places can get as far as who will do well here and you're welcomed into the class. But the idea that we do what you do is a really important nugget for juniors as you start to discover and move into the summer and then get to the fall and have to decide where to apply and how to tell your story. Keep asking yourself if the place is on the list, do what you hope to do, or that you're already doing. And if the answer is no, it shouldn't be on your list. But when the answer is yes, the admission process can react to that and give you the confidence of knowing this is a place you can be, and where you'll be happy, and where you will thrive.
Gabby:
Hi, I am Gabby. I'm from Maryland and my reflection on the process is thinking about what you can control versus what's out of your control. And if you're able to spend a lot of your energy focusing on the tangible things you can do, I think that makes the process a lot smoother for you because you can go on the internet and search up whenever you want and scare yourself as much as you can, but all the time you spend doing that is less time you're spending on yourself. So it's a waste of your time pretty much.
The other thing I would say is vulnerability, because when you present yourself, I feel like a lot of people think that you need to present a perfect story, you need to be the best at everything. But throughout my process, I was really able to explore things that I had trouble with. I had a letter of recommendation sent from a teacher who didn't think I could take a math class, but I still made her write a letter of recommendation for me, even though that's not my best subject. So throughout my process I just tried to show how I learn and as many different perspectives as I could. Even though, yeah, I'm not the best math student at my school, but no one else has my experience in math.
Lee Coffin:
So what you did was counterintuitive with your teacher recommendation. You went to a teacher who maybe didn't give you your best grade, but who had something to say that spoke to your grit and your determination. And I mean, that's good advice to juniors who will often turn to an 11th grade teacher in the next couple of weeks or months and say, can you write me a letter for the Fall? And you may go to Mrs. Jones, who's your history teacher, who you have an A and you love her and she loves you, and she's going to tell us what we already know. But maybe Mr. Smith is someone that focuses on the b you got in chemistry, uh, and you're thinking about being a creative writing major. And that rec from chemistry gives you a more well-rounded narrative. I love that. So when you were Googling your way through your nerves, give us an example of a rabbit hole you tumbled down and thought, "Why am I here?" What data did you grab that was outside of your control that you worried about?
Gabby:
Reddit. Reddit is so entertaining. You can go down so many rabbit holes. It's very entertaining to read. But I was like, are these people going to help me? What are they doing to support me? Absolutely nothing. They have no control over what's going to happen to me. That's what I can do for myself. And I would also say the statistics, you don't actually know what's behind the statistics. Like you said in your last episode, that's your responsibility, not ours. So that's not something that we should be concerned about.
Lee Coffin:
Yeah, it's easy to get distracted by numbers and Jacques, as an admissions reporter yourself, 20 plus years ago you were a consumer of this data. And so Gabby's giving us a cautionary warning about numbers in the admission process as being maybe catnip that you don't want to taste.
Jacques Steinberg:
I mean, I think it's important to keep selectivity in mind as you build a balanced list. And if every college on your list has an admission selectivity that's in the single digits and there's not balance there, those are numbers to pay attention to. But trying to decide if you are going to be on either side of that acceptance or not acceptance at that highly selective place, not psyching yourself out with the numbers is probably good advice.
Beth:
Beth from Colorado. Develop a good relationship with your student's college counselor. Let the college counselor bug your student about getting tasks done, or thinking about different things and then your child's college counselor can tell you when to back off, when to pipe down, and when you're being unreasonable. The other tidbit is to develop a network among fellow parents who are going through the process. Have someone who won't judge you that you can rant text when your child is procrastinating, and your head is about to explode.
Lee Coffin:
Yeah. So you just touched the parent topic and so to the parents who are all smiling as they listen to you, let's talk about the frustration of a procrastinating child. And if you had that experience in your home, how did you navigate that?
David:
I'm David from Fairbanks, Alaska, and the procrastination thing really rang a bell for me because we dealt with that all fall long. We went and visited colleges in August, had a big road trip down here to do that. And all fall long, very little was happening. I was going out of my mind and it was really difficult to watch that happen, but in the end she managed, my daughter, managed to pull it together during winter break to get all these applications in. And so I guess my advice is even if your child is a procrastinator as mine is, some procrastinators do a pretty good job of that last minute thing. Don't panic. Because I was very near panicking and that would've lost the game.
Lee Coffin:
Are you a planner?
David:
Not by nature, by necessity.
Lee Coffin:
Yeah, because there's those characteristics we all have. Like I said, are you a planner who spawned a procrastinator? And if that's true, you're layering your own impulse on your kid and vice versa. And I think this advice is good about just setting some ground rules around who am I, who are you? Whether it was my expectation. I did a parent talk a couple of months ago and I said to the parents, "If you know you have a kid who needs to be nagged, set that as a thing." Like when is my nag opportunity and when do you not want it? Maybe it's every Sunday at 7 PM. Maybe it's never. And then you just have to sit back and let it flow.
Jacques Steinberg:
Also, Lee mentioned I'm a journalist by training and sometimes when I was facing that daily deadline and it was getting close to when if I didn't submit my article, it was not going to get in the next day's newspaper, back when print was king. Sometimes I did my best work up against the deadline. And I suspect some of you have children who do the same and as hard as it is for us as parents, and I have two who've gone through this process, letting them move at their pace while still making sure that we don't relinquish our role as parents and that they're going to miss that deadline. But I want to stay on this topic of procrastination and students who are with us today, would one of you be kind enough to let us know if you are somebody who tends to do things as the deadline approached, were there things your parents said that were helpful? Or were there things you wish they might've said? And speaking to the procrastinators in our audience who are coming up next, but also their parents. Any students want to take a stab at that?
Sophia:
Hi, I'm Sophia from Long Beach, California. When it comes to procrastination, sitting here right now, I realize that I did my Dartmouth application in about three weeks before the deadline and I've been knowing that I want to go to Dartmouth, but I did have that procrastination. I felt that the pressure was on and that can become immobilizing. So if anybody here is listening to this, know that there's still time to act and it really is just all in your head. Because also I had a Common App essay. We all did, but the story that I have for you is that I had this essay and I had it written, but after a heart-to-heart with my counselor, in the three days before the Common App essay was due, I ended up changing the essay. I scrapped the whole thing.
Don't do that, don't do that. But I share this with you because know that it's not too late to rebrand yourself to share a different part of the story. Know that you can take chances and especially with this, be uncomfortable taking risk and innovating yourself and know that the pressure is definitely on, but the deadline will come and it will pass and there is hope at the end of the tunnel.
Lee Coffin:
So Sophia, what happened three days before the deadline? What was your... Curious minds want to know. What was the big epiphany where you went uh-oh?
Sophia:
Well, my experience is that I was a transfer student, so I transferred schools and it was hard to encapsulate that entire experience in one essay and I felt that it just wasn't representative of who I am as a person. And so after having a heart-to-heart with my counselor and she read it, and this is also why it is a good idea to have a good relationship with your counselor, but she said, "Sophia, I don't really see you in this essay." And I'm like, "Oh my goodness, you're telling me this now?"
And so I decided that that weekend I would just have a heart-to-heart with myself and really think about what I wanted to encapsulate and show in this essay. And I decided that I wanted to show my adventure, my risk taking, my spontaneity, that side of me because it hadn't really come through in other parts of the application. And I am so happy that I did that because I love the essay that I did end up writing in three days. And I am glad that I had that experience and I'm hopeful that anybody else can learn from that and take what you will.
Sonia:
Hi, my name is Sonia and I'm from Redmond, Washington and I did my Dartmouth application around the same timeframe as my fellow future classmate possibly. And one thing my parents, I can speak for the parents then, is my parents did very well, they allowed me the time and space and really put trust in my college counselor and me to get the job done. And I think that really took the pressure off because it didn't, versus with some of my peers, it created a conflict with parents obviously doing their job but constantly putting pressure on them to make sure their applications were in on time. And I think that I really appreciate my parents taking a step back and fully trusting me in the process. And I think that to any parents out there, I would definitely recommend trust in your student. If your student is probably applying to selective colleges, they probably and have the grades and scores, they probably are going to try and get their applications and put their best foot forward. So I would recommend definitely just trusting in them in the process.
Lee Coffin:
Beth had the comment earlier about basically outsourcing the counseling function to the counselor, trusting that person in the school to be the one pushing and it stops you as a parent from having to be pushing yourself.
Jacques Steinberg:
Anyone else who wanted to speak to the topic of procrastination?
Lee Coffin:
I have a question related to that. Sophia was working on our app three days before the deadline. We had 28,000 applications this year and we got 20,000 of them in a week between Christmas and the deadline of January 2nd. So whether it was procrastination, or everybody doing a lot of really slow typing, there seemed to be, I mean the Common App goes live on August 1st, flash forward multiple months and you get 20,000 in a week. And I think the advice I would give to the juniors is you can start submitting pieces of this application in September and October, we won't read it, but you can start your file and take the pressure off having to scramble towards the finish. Now I say that as somebody who never did an all-nighter in college, I can't imagine the idea of doing everything at the buzzer, but some people do. I would advise people to use the calendar as your friend, plan the weeks so that everything doesn't come crashing into your to-do list at the same moment.
Sabrina:
Hi, I'm Sabrina from Brooklyn. I'm just going to suggest a counterargument to that, which is that in watching the production of a variety of... There was an ED application submitted in our household and a deferral and then in watching the production of another ton of applications, what I saw was that, like everything in life, as she practiced what she was doing, they got stronger and stronger and stronger. And that the bouncing off of ideas from application to application made that final completion a way better... That thing was a masterpiece compared to where she started. And so while I don't like to watch the procrastinating and I would not like to live through that last week ever again, I will say that it definitely helped produce, in my eyes, a much stronger application because there are so many ideas that rhyme across the questions from different colleges that in the reflection of how to answer them might cause you to go back and change some of your answers to the first.
Lee Coffin:
So can anybody talk to that interesting point about the application as a growth experience? Like you're filling out the applications and you are seeing yourself in a new way. Did that happen?
Maggie:
I'm Maggie and I'm from Lexington, Massachusetts. I think for me, when I was answering the questions for Dartmouth, I thought that maybe I had to write about a specific topic. I want to major in biology. So I was like, "Oh, I need to write about biology." But as I kept trying to write essays, the only thing that would really come out was just a really bad essay about biology, even though I really like it. So that's when I decided to write about my family and how close I am to my siblings and the small school I went to when I was little. And that is something that ended up making a lot more sense when I was trying to tell my story and I think it really showed me more of who I am. And that helped me throughout the application process, just trying to answer things as thoughtfully and trying to say things with who I am instead of what I think other people wanted to hear from me. So I definitely think I learned more about myself throughout the application process.
Lee Coffin:
You just said something really important for juniors: Don't answer questions based on what you think we want to hear because we don't know the answer. We want to hear whatever you tell us. And sometimes when you're forcing the answer into this framework that is about me, not you, the essay doesn't ring authentically.
Jacques Steinberg:
And Maggie, you don't have to answer this, but to put you on the spot for a moment, you told stories about your siblings and your family. How did you go from talking about your siblings and family to talking about yourself and what do you think they learned about you from that example?
Maggie:
What I ended up writing was a story of how my morning would go when I lived in Chile, which is where I grew up, and I started writing about how I would wake up next to my younger sibling and I would help her do her hair and then I would go to the car and all of my siblings would pack in the car, we're five. So we would all try to fit in and then I would go to school and I would help my classmates because I would always get there really early. So I think just throughout the story I started telling little things about how I like to help my siblings and my classmates and it just showed what is important to me. And I think that sounded a lot more like myself than just an essay about something that I am passionate about. But it's not exactly who I am. Who I am is more of the people around me and how close I am to them.
Lee Coffin:
Yeah, you helped us meet you.
Maggie:
Yeah.
Lee Coffin:
Yeah.
Jacques Steinberg:
So Lee, can we stay on the topic, essay advice and story? You, all students, you've now told your story, you are expert storytellers and you learned things. What did you learn about telling your story that would be helpful to those who will come next? Either in talking about themselves, who am I, or why you're interested in the particular school that you're interested in? What tips did you learn?
Veronica:
I'm Veronica and I'm from Massachusetts, and I think one major thing that I learned was actually the hardest essay for me to write was definitely the major Common App essay, which is supposed to be the encapsulation of who you are and what you're presenting to the admission officers. And I still have the document in my drive. That document is probably 47 pages long from drafts and rewrites and edits and doing it over and over again. And that essay is also the most pushback I received from showing it to somebody. Like I took Russian classes in a neighboring town and I knew this teacher who is also very good in English as well, and she knows me, but she knows me as a student. And the pushback, or the comments I received from her were that “this essay is too complicated. The admissions officers will get lost in the story. You need to dumb it down.” And that comment, I actually received about seven times from various different adults telling me that the style of writing was just not going to fly, but the style is also part of your personality and your story. And I knew that the way I was writing it is crucial to who I am. And the friends that I showed it to, who know me as a person, agreed that they saw me in that essay. So I think for the upcoming juniors, really the advice to remember is talk to people who know you, and take their advice, but also know that when you ask for advice, know what perspective these people are going to be commenting on it from. Because realistically, you know yourself best, so even if you get negative advice, take it if you think it's right, but also know when to push back and say, "No, this is my story."
Lee Coffin:
I love that. So you did not dumb down your essay.
Veronica:
No, I did not.
Lee Coffin:
Good for you.
There you go.
Jacques Steinberg:
So one of the pieces of advice Lee from Veronica's story is know when you hear advice that doesn't really speak to you. “Thanks for the advice, but I'm going to keep my own counsel.”
Sophia:
I am Sophia from Queens, New York, and her story actually reminds me of my advice as a parent who went through the processes. Sometimes we just have to get out of their way. And as adults, when we're reading their essay or talking to them about their process, we think we have a greater insight. But I think the best thing that we can do for them sometimes is just let them be the most authentic 17-year-old, instead of through our lens of what should be, or what the college essay guy said on his blog. So I think that's what I found through my firstborn's college process.
Jacques Steinberg:
Lee, you used the word “pressure” and I believe Sophia also used the word “pressure.” And so let's talk about stress and stress management. Imagine those coming after you and what they're going to be feeling, students and parents, what did you learn about how to manage the stress of the college application process?
Lucia:
Hi, so my name is Lucia and I was born in Italy. For me it was as new as for my son, all this process. When I read my son's personal sermon, I cried because it was so good, but I was really worried because he wrote about finding God, hiking in the rain. And I said, "Well, are you sure you want to talk about God?" And he said, "Mama, this is who I am. Everything I care about, which is environmental sustainability, global warming, climate change, everything is because of my identity as a man of faith. And so if they don't like that, maybe that's not the college for me." So, "This is who I am, and this is what I'm going to write about." So yeah, you have to trust your son and your daughters.
Lee Coffin:
What I love about that story and him pushing back, like Veronica, these lessons that you're gleaning from this are the students do know who they are and what they're trying to talk about. And being true to the I'm a man of faith who cares about the environment. I can see one of my colleagues typing that into the rationale that led to the word admit at the end the file.
Samantha:
Hi, I'm Samantha from Massachusetts and my advice I think to parents and students who are starting the process is to lean into it a bit and enjoy it. And I think for me, listening to the podcast help me realize that there's a lot of great things to be gained from the growth and self-exploration that your student will go through. We really enjoyed our college visits. We did them often as a family. It was great bonding time with our student who soon will be going off to college. So that was really great time together. And I think it's exciting to watch your kids grow and learn about themselves and where they fit and what they really love and want to do. So my suggestion would be rather than feeling a lot of anxiety and stress about parts of the process, look forward to it being kind of a growing experience as a family.
Punit:
I'm Punit from Connecticut. My advice on stress is first of all, acknowledge that this is a tough, long process. It's not 600 words, it's 47 pages. And just don't kid yourself that this is filling up some multiple-choice forms on the internet. This is a full-time job for the student. And as a parent, our job is to support them with whatever they want, and literally whatever. Because their stress is multiple times our stress and that needs to be acknowledged. So the quick one, my son, we are very close with many things and one of the things he said, he's like, "I would like to do this application, but I wouldn't want any of you in the family to read anything I write." I said, "Okay, that's a deal. As long as no matter what happens, you're going to be okay with it and we are going to be okay with it." And still, I haven't read his Common App, so support the student with whatever they want. Their stress is multiple times your stress and it is a very involved process. Acknowledge that. That would be my advice.
Lee Coffin:
Well, and what I like about what you did with your son was you said you can do this independently, but you own the result.
Carrie:
I'm Carrie from New Jersey. So my son was initially deferred, so we had to go through a number of other applications and he had a thought, there's this ED2 thing, right, where he had a temporary thought of, should I just do ED2 at the highest ranked school? And it was like, well, you haven't been to that school. And it's hard. He very much wanted it to be done, but the stress is part of it. And I think he had so much growth during the wait and he got to see everything unfold. There's so much that you can learn about yourself during it all and don't do something just to get done.
Lee Coffin:
Yeah, I think the lesson there is don't panic. I think decisions start to come or you get a test back or you take the SAT and the score's not what you thought it should be, and there's this impulse to overreact and try and course correct. And sometimes you just need to stay the course.
Sophia:
I'm Sophia from New York City, I am someone like Gabby who likes to control what I can control and let go of what I can't control. And as a parent, I was very much trying to do that, which for me is to empower myself with information, which then would stress out my daughter, which led her to push me away even more. And we had always been very close and I felt like now you're becoming a teenager rebelling and pushing me away and shutting me out. And for me to manage my stress, I would listen to the Admissions Beat podcast, which was incredibly grounding and soothing because it was empowering, providing transparency, and it reminded me real human beings are really reading these applications and my daughter didn't want to hear any of it.
And at the end, after she got accepted, the stress went away. I felt closer to her. And throughout the process it was very imperfect. I had felt never further away than I did during this process from her, but we would have conversations throughout. So I could just explain that my way of dealing with stress was to get informed, and I was just trying to help her because she's very humble and I had my other reasons and I think it helped that throughout she could understand my why even though it was incompatible for her stress management. But now I think we'll be okay. So I think my advice for anyone listening, if you manage stress by becoming really informed and that doesn't work for your child, if you could just once in a while when you're in a emotionally neutral place, explain the intention. I think it'll work out.
Jacques Steinberg:
And I also think your point about your roles are different, your paths are different, and as a parent respecting that your child's on a different path, with a different goal, and may have a different process.
Chuck:
Good afternoon, I'm Chuck from Atlanta and at the risk of upsetting the whole college industrial complex, regarding college consultants. And the reason I ask this is because a year ago I would have loved to have heard, from the college perspective, what their take was on this. We spoke with other parents, some said they used them, some said they didn't. I mean when it came down to it, we didn't use one and it worked out. But I'd just be curious what your thoughts were regarding that.
Lee Coffin:
College consultants for hire, not from within the school?
Chuck:
Correct, yes.
Lee Coffin:
Yeah. So they are part of the, how did you say, the college industrial complex. I mean, they have a role to play in the work we do, and I think for some students who do not have the blessing of available counseling in their school or community, really important. I think what I often scratch my head about though, there'll be students who are at well-resourced schools with terrific in-school counseling who then had a counselor on top of that, that feels unnecessary. I think sometimes it's panic and you think I need to have somebody doing this for me with me full time. I think one by one, families have a question to ask and answer. Do I have a resource at my disposal that I feel comfortable with? And if the answer is yes, you're good. If the answer is no, that group of people is there to help. And I think for juniors, I wouldn't say you must do it, but I think if you would feel more comfortable having another person guiding this, go for it.
Jacques Steinberg:
I think really important at the front end, to keep an open mind about the counselor in your child's school and find out what their perspective is, what's their experience, what's their expertise, exhaust their knowledge, and then perhaps ask the question if there's a need for more. And as Lee says, there may be lots of reasons why there's a need for more, but I do think Lee, sometimes, families skip that step and automatically go to the outsider as opposed to the person at their school.
Lee Coffin:
Yeah.
Jacques Steinberg:
Time for one or two more questions.
Linda:
Hi, I am Linda from Massachusetts. And Lee, this question might, I think, perhaps goes beyond admissions, but I thought you might have some good insight into it, which is we heard you say that the students control their narrative in the application process. And the goal is to, as we heard from the young woman over there, really tell her story about who she is. But at the same time, the dichotomy I see is they're 17 years old, and there's so much to explore. And so how do we guide these students so that yes, they control this narrative, who they know who they are, but that when they get here they explore and they try new things and things that probably were not part of their narrative.
Lee Coffin:
When I think about my own story, high school was this powerful developmental period for me. Last week, I talked about lessons from the stage and the way I grew having performed through drama club as a high school student. But then I got to college and I didn't do drama. I did it in community theater. I didn't do it in the actual college I attended. And I think part of what we're doing as admission officers is not trying to carbon copy somebody from high school to college and say, "You play the tuba, you will play the tuba." You were the class president, you will be the... I mean there are over 100 class presidents in our current first year class. I don't think any of them became the first year class president at Dartmouth. But how do you translate the quality that's there? It's leadership, somebody who takes a role and moves the institution forward.
So for college, as you move out of high school and the well-roundedness, and I think some students do try and perform a bit for admission officers like I'm doing this because it's going to look good. I would say don't do it because it looks good, do it because you love it. But then what do you bring into the new community when maybe you meet rugby for the first time, or a debate, or all the things that college offers that maybe your high school didn't. Or I went to college thinking I was an English major, I placed out of first year English. I took a history course instead, and I didn't look back because the professor I met in that American history course that I'd taken so many times over and over again since I was a little boy, was told in such a provocative way that I was like, this door just swung open and I went through it.
That happens at all colleges because the people we're admitting are not fully baked. I mean, they're kids still. And I say that respectfully. College is meant to build on where they are. And so college admission is this assessment of them to date, and then you add in this pixie dust called potential and how does this place where I work take the potential and bring it to another place? So I think that's a normal part of what we're doing. And we don't look at applications with this idea that everybody we're admitting is going to keep doing what they do. Most of them don't, but the talent is there and it just turns into something new.
Jacques Steinberg:
Lee, I have the unenviable task of letting you know that we have to bring our 99th episode to a close.
Lee Coffin:
As I look at all of you, the listeners who are here with us today, I am very humbled by the kind comments you've been making to me today about how meaningful this podcast has been for you and your kids. I've often said, this is an act of admission citizenship. I'm not recruiting for Dartmouth as we do this. And I think many listeners take what we've discussed and they go in lots of directions that don't lead them to Hanover, New Hampshire, and I'm thrilled about that for them.
But it's been so much fun to think about these episodes to bring together my colleagues, my friends, last week, the director of my high school drama club, who's in his 70s now to talk about what I was like when I was 14. And that has been part of the joy of my work. So I thank you all for listening. To the listeners out there, as you are hearing this with about 10 days to go, May 1st is winking at you from the very near future. So I hope this pod, and the ones that preceded it, have given you the confidence to pick your alma mater by May 1st and to get the sweatshirt, smile as you look to your future, and then do it.
Audience, it's been a treat having you here today. So thank you all for coming. For now, I'm Lee Coffin from Dartmouth. I will see you next week for our 100th episode and a very special guest.