For any college admissions officer, reading and evaluating an application is the work of the work. It is the heart of the admissions process itself, its most essential task. Reading season is the moment when recruitment yields to selection, when assessing merit and potential becomes a blend of reflection and decision as each application is evaluated and a class is shaped. The Dartmouth-based cast of last year's "Learning to Read," AB's most downloaded episode, reunites for a second, heartfelt conversation about their work as admission readers in a most selective admissions environment. The trio offer insights into "what counts" as each moves from file to file, and each reveals the invisible humanity that animates the work of the work.
For any college admissions officer, reading and evaluating an application is the work of the work. It is the heart of the admissions process itself, its most essential task. Reading season is the moment when recruitment yields to selection, when assessing merit and potential becomes a blend of reflection and decision as each application is evaluated and a class is shaped. The Dartmouth-based cast of last year's "Learning to Read," AB's most downloaded episode, reunites for a second, heartfelt conversation about their work as admission readers in a most selective admissions environment. The trio offer insights into "what counts" as each moves from file to file, and each reveals the invisible humanity that animates the work of the work.
Lee Coffin:
From Hanover, New Hampshire, I'm Lee Coffin, Dartmouth's vice president and dean of admission and financial aid, and this is Admissions Beat.
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I've been an admission officer for 30 years, and every year this season looms on the calendar called reading season. And as a colleague once said to me, "This is really the work of the work. It's where everything we do comes together, and we have to roll up our sleeves, and do something intentional and intensive, and that creates the class." I said, "Yep," and I've always had that phrase, “the work of the work” in my head. It really is the most important part of what we do, and then it's also invisible to almost everybody outside the admission office.
So I'm coming back to this topic to re-meet a group of admission officers who learned to read last year. We bring back to the pod Will Keiger, Jackie Pageau, and Laura Rivera-Martinez, who are now in the midst of their second reading cycle at Dartmouth. And I was curious how last year's rookie year prepared them, for what I promised them a year ago would be an easier journey through reading season. Maybe that's true, maybe it's not. But when we come back, we'll say hi to the three of them again, and see what lessons they have continued to learn from this work of the work.
We'll be right back.
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Hi, guys. Welcome back to Admissions Beat. To listeners, this conversation a year ago has been the most downloaded pod of all 90-something we have done. So we clearly tapped into curiosity, or perhaps the charm and talent of my colleagues, as we batted around this topic.
A year ago there were four first-time readers. As is often true, people come and go, and so three of them continue into this sophomore cycle, and I wanted to first ask all of you to think about how things changed. So a year ago, March, you were still reading. We hadn't done committee, we hadn't watched the decisions come back from our acceptances, you hadn't gone back out on the road to the high schools you had read, and here we are doing it again.
So as you think about year two, what's been similar or different?
Jaclyn Pageau:
A good question. I think what has been different this year is that I knew what was coming. Last year, the whole first year, every three months was a different phase of this job, and it was all brand new. And this year I knew what that year in the life looked like, and so I was able to better prepare myself for that. Especially reading, knowing how much of a marathon this was, I think we all probably commented on that last year, but to now know that from the start, and to be able to go into reading with that longer mindset and longer view, has been very different than last year, which was just every day was more files, and I didn't know when it was going to end, or if it was going to end, or what happened at the end. And I just had to keep going until someone told me not to anymore.
Lee Coffin:
Well, and last year you all referred to reading as a marathon. I think Will coined it, and Laura quickly said, "Yes, it's a marathon. That's exactly right."
But what was interesting, Jackie, is at the end of that episode I asked each of you what you learned that you would take forward and you said, "Slow and steady wins the race."
Jaclyn Pageau:
Nailed it.
Lee Coffin:
You nailed it. So you're pacing yourself, but what's also interesting is you were the first of all of us to finish her docket.
Jaclyn Pageau:
Yes.
Lee Coffin:
So slow and steady got you to the finish line before the rest of us did, so it worked.
Jaclyn Pageau:
It did work.
Lee Coffin:
It did work. Will, how was your second year?
Will Keiger:
Yeah. I think the first thing that I've noticed is, just as you do something more, like the first year, you gain a better understanding of the small details but also the bigger picture, and I think that made travel season this year and actually visiting the high schools much more meaningful, because I was like, "Oh, I've read files from these locations," and that's of course informed the way that I'm currently reading now.
All that's to say that I feel more confident in saying, for instance, "This is a school where this is the type of applicant we typically see." "This is a school that is going to have very different applicants than are typical," and from that then I can, that's just more information for me to use to allow me to go faster on some of those files, where I'm not fully sure. I'm like, "This is a file that it's wonderful."
So in a way it's just taking the pressure off of the files and made them go a little bit faster, because you just have more knowledge base to draw from.
Lee Coffin:
Laura, how has travel been enhanced by reading?
Laura Rivera Martinez:
I feel like last year we were going into this blind, and would just think about this image of me carrying a little lamp, and I didn't know the road. I just had an older admissions officer helping me out, and figuring out what I'm looking at, because you were taking a lot in and understanding what you're looking at first, is kind the big task.
And then this year I know what that end looks like. I know what files really compel all their admissions officers, given their experience, so following what they think stands out, and just learning from them has been huge.
And visiting territories, I think this year I was able to be a lot more strategic. Understanding what our priorities are as an institution for Dartmouth, why I hear you, Lee, say oftentimes, "This is what we want, this is what we're working on." So just me taking ownership of that and like, "Okay, how can I think creatively about accomplishing those goals, too, in terms of reaching the right students, or reaching more students in say my geographical areas."
So yeah, just a lot more knowledge and ability to, again, take ownership of the work.
Lee Coffin:
Yeah. Last year you said you were still learning how to trust your gut.
Laura Rivera Martinez:
Yeah, yeah. And I think by the end of last year, just having gone through ED committee, RD committee, I feel like I've developed that sense. I'm like, "Okay, this feels right," or, "This is the right texture," or, "I'm getting enough from this file." I understand, again, all these different reasons why this would be a file that makes it at the end, which is what I use as a guiding force or something I'm looking towards.
Lee Coffin:
Have the three of you found year two to be easier than year one?
Jaclyn Pageau:
Yes.
Will Keiger:
Yeah.
Jaclyn Pageau:
Lee Coffin:
Laura's nodding.
Laura Rivera Martinez:
Yes, yes.
Lee Coffin:
So that's good. So I promised you that and that happened.
So let's talk about advice we might give seniors and juniors in high school, based on your evolving appreciation for the art of reading. It's not a science, they're numbers, but it's really more holistic than that.
And last year you all touched the same word, which was storytelling, and the idea that each application is the story of a person. Talk a little bit more about that. How is the ideal of storytelling resonating with you, as you've done this a second year?
Will Keiger:
Basically, our job as an admissions officer is partially to take an application and to try and weave a cohesive narrative out of the different pieces and parts, and sometimes applicants themselves weave a narrative for us, helping us. And so one of the things that I've thought of storytelling as I try to weave together some narrative, is just thinking about extracurriculars, and, "What has this person done? What are the pieces pointing that their interests are” Recommendation letters, and how teachers and guidance counselors see them," and of course all this is impacted by where the student is, and what they've done in the past, their context, their background.
So I guess my then advice, just to think about storytelling and narrative would be, give us enough texture in information. For instance, in your extracurriculars, you might be the basketball captain. That's wonderful, but what does that mean? How do you impact the team? What is your role on that team as a captain? And through just giving us more, I guess, information and pieces, then you can help the admissions officers as they weave that narrative for your file.
Jaclyn Pageau:
I would say in a similar vein, show rather than tell. The application is set up in a way that you're going to get to do both, but when I'm reading narratives, where a student is showing me through a story of something that has happened, what being the captain of the basketball team means, rather than just listing the captain of the basketball team, that is really helpful for me. Because it gives me so much more information about what that role is, instead of leaning back on my assumptions of what the basketball captain is, as someone who was never the captain of their basketball team, has no idea what that might mean for you in Kentucky versus Georgia, versus somewhere else.
So being able to share stories of things that happened is really helpful as we go through, and it also just allows me to, as I'm reading, I feel like I'm meeting people, that I'm just so excited to share with my colleagues. And so the people I meet that I want to go to the kitchen and be like, "Oh, my gosh, the student is so cool. These things that they're doing make no sense together, but they love them," or, "This student has done so much in this one area, I can't believe how much they've accomplished at 17 years old." Those pieces all come together for me as I'm reading, and rather than feeling like you need to write a novel of your life and then condense it down into your application, how do you tell me those pieces that really excite you and feel really authentic to who you are, so that I can then be so excited to share you with everyone else I work with.
Lee Coffin:
Well, and you just repeated something you referenced a year ago, which was-
Jaclyn Pageau:
I'm very consistent, this is great.
Lee Coffin:
Yeah, no. I think it's a really important point to make is that you like meeting the students. You're reading a story, you're summarizing that story for the selection committee, but you're the champion of each student, and I don't know that applicants always understand that.
Laura, does that make sense to you, that you are the advocate almost-
Laura Rivera Martinez:
Yeah.
Lee Coffin:
... for each person on your docket, and you can't always advocate for a yes, but that's what you're trying to do.
Laura Rivera Martinez:
Yeah, and I think that makes me think about how sometimes we get personally invested in the future of a candidacy. If we really like someone and we see all the merit, and all these great things that they have accomplished, like you were saying, Jackie, I think that we really want them to do well in the process, and we do our best to craft the best argument to make that happen, and highlight all the things that are important to a number of people in the committee.
And part of that just makes me think about making peace also with the way that each file might move, and just wish goodwill to the person that we're reading, because I am thinking about my own experience applying. It's just you put so much effort into this, and four years go into crafting this narrative, so I always keep that in mind, that positive aspect and uplifting.
Lee Coffin:
To me that's a really important commitment we make, and it's tricky, because we work in a very selective place, and I think the tension is, "Well, the acceptance rate's low, so we have to find reasons to say no," as opposed to, "The acceptance rate is low, and we have to be precise, but we're looking for yes," and trying to present each person with our best effort, based on what they shared with us.
And talk a little bit about files that you might be in, where you're trying to build the case, but the evidence isn't there. I find myself sometimes reading a file saying, "I'm not typing anything," and I'm reading, but there's nothing for me to distill into the narrative that leads to an admit.
Laura Rivera Martinez:
That's probably tied to the previous question you just asked, and the advice that I would give is that, see the application truly as an opportunity to share. I think there might be that perception that, it's almost like a scary thing to do, or, "Oh, how am I doing this?" And I think it's just a tool for you to present yourself, and highlight the things that are important to you, maybe look at fit.
And to that point, looking at the application as a tool for you to convey what you care about, your values, the reasons why you do the things that you do. That would help us make that argument, because we are trained not to make any assumptions. So it's really hard for us to say something that is not in the file, even if we perceive it as being there, but if it's not there, it's really hard for us to make that jump.
So my advice would be for you, as a high schooler, to articulate those things and put it in writing. That will help us, again, make that case for you, even if it's quite evident, but if it's not there, it's hard for us to do that.
Lee Coffin:
Yeah, I love legal dramas on television. I just finished watching Lincoln Lawyer on Netflix, and I'm reminded every time I see a courtroom, that the lawyer can only present the evidence that is available to the lawyer, and the jury can only hear the evidence that's been presented.
And there's a parallel to the application, and what we can extract from it, and share with the admission committee. And I've often said to students, "I'm the lawyer. I'm looking for the evidence in your application to present to a group of people that haven't met you or even read your file, to get them to vote in your favor." Does that sound like a good metaphor?
Laura Rivera Martinez:
Yes.
Will Keiger:
Yeah. I would also add too, that when there is a file for me that pieces aren't explicitly there and obvious in jumping out at you, I oftentimes just take a step back and look at the, "Where is this applicant coming from? What are the expectations of the school they're in? Do people even know about, for instance, Dartmouth or the Ivy League? Where they are, is that a normal thing for people to apply to?"
And then with that context in mind, I'm like, "Okay, maybe these are the reasons why we might say yes to this person, even though it's not jumping out, they haven't articulated it to the extent where it's in your face obvious, right?" At the end of the day, I just remember when I was a high schooler, my mindset of applying to colleges was very different from the knowledge and information I have now. And so it was a very different context and for a high schooler, a lot of them, I just think of friends that I had, honestly partially myself too, of you just do well in your classes, you do your extracurriculars, and then you apply for colleges and hope for the best.
Lee Coffin:
So as readers, what do you notice when you're reading a file? What jumps out at you?
Laura Rivera Martinez:
For me, I think that when a student has done a lot of introspective work, and really thought deeply about the reasons why they want to pursue college, or the reasons why they care about this specific subject, and why that brings something in them, sparks something in them, I think that really moves me, and it's a way to understand the core of the student. Or, it illuminates the path for me, and I can notice it a lot more now on my second year.
Jaclyn Pageau:
Yeah. I would second that entirely.
I'm always so impressed when I read something from a student that has shown that they have taken some time to think about why they're filling out this application, and why they're applying to this place, or why they want to do the things they're doing, or how their life has shaped them to this point, and where it might shape them going farther. That stands out to me so much.
And counter to that, I'm also ... the files that surprise me get me really excited, and I think sometimes that comes from just like, "Wow, the maturity of the student to have thought about these things that I definitely was not thinking about at 17 years old is so impressive to me," but also sometimes I'll see a list of activities for a student, and I'll get to the seventh of the ten and I'm like, "I know where this is going," and then number eight comes out of nowhere, and that is so exciting to me, when I find a student that is able to do the things that they want to do, but also to maybe not have this perfect complete package that is all tied together with a bow. But they do all of these things and they also go fly-fishing, or they also skateboard, or they also do whatever it is that they do that doesn't align maybe with the other things, but is authentic to what they're interested in. Those always excite me.
Lee Coffin:
Yeah. Last week's episode, we talked about merits and what counts? How would you answer that? What counts?
Laura Rivera Martinez:
I think everything counts, right? Anything. Those fun activities and hobbies, and just sometimes I get so drawn into students who are very specific and nuanced, like mentioning specific philosophers, or books that they read, and how that has aligned specifically with their lives. That carries something for me.
Will Keiger:
If an applicant cares about something, I think that is what defines if it counts or not. So there'll be part of the extracurriculars list, people will write different clubs, and in-school clubs, and maybe summer programs they've been to. But I think it's also super valuable to see, "Hey, my hobbies are these. I play the guitar. I really love watches, and all the gears and stuff, and I make my own custom watches or whatnot." I think all of that speaks to what the person's curious about, and that also gives you insight into this person's character, who they are as a person, really.
Jaclyn Pageau:
I think it's interesting that you've asked about merit, and none of us have talked about grades.
Lee Coffin:
I was just going to say-
Jaclyn Pageau:
And I think that is fascinating and very telling to the listener, that the first thing we went to was not your transcript, or your test score, or the classes, but-
Lee Coffin:
Jackie, you're playing the role of dean in this episode, because that was going to be my very observation, is that none of you went to the thing I think most people assume, means merit.
Last week with Logan Powell from Brown, we talked about academics as foundational merit, especially in a very selective environment. Those are the elements that have to be there for the file to move forward, but what you're each putting your finger on is the person, the narrative, the qualities that animate each person, one by one.
But you're right, I was struck by that too, that none of you said that AP physics. It could be that AP physics is a thing that animates someone's curiosity, and you've got a file that really jumps out at you, because they're talking about quantum physics. Or I always feel humbled when I read something and I think, "I don't know what they're talking about," and they're so smart that it just blew by me.
Laura Rivera Martinez:
I think that that reminds me of that quote, that not everything that counts can be counted, and I think that's the core that we're trying to get at. That's something that only experience a bit, and our own set of values inform, from how we see that.
Lee Coffin:
How do you assess intangibles?
So to the Einstein quote you just shared, not everything that counts can be counted. If I said to you, "We value curiosity or collaboration." How do you see it? How do you document that? Where is it in the file?
Jaclyn Pageau:
It's everywhere in the file, and I think something I find myself writing a lot more this year than I was able to last year, is that sometimes I'll say, "The throughline of this file is this concept," because you're maybe not saying in every essay, "I'm curious and I like to learn," but the way that you were writing about the things you were writing about, shows me that you're showcasing curiosity. Your recommendations are telling me that you are a really curious person. Your peer that's writing your letter is like, "They just keep looking into new thing," and then I get to see that that is a theme that is emerging from many different places in your application, rather than you having to name these things that we say are our values. Which sometimes you will also do. But that tie line through emerges.
Will Keiger:
One thing that I do when I read an application is, when I read the recommendation letters, I just ... typing away if I see certain buzzwords, I'm like, "Okay, writing these down," because that way when I look at the file, I'm like, "Okay, these are some of the descriptors that teachers have used and peers have used to describe this person," and just by sheer number of like, hey, every single recommendation letter said that this person's curious. Or every recommendation letter said that this person's engaged in discussion. Then I say, "Okay, that's a indicator that hey, they're probably just that descriptor, right? They're curious. They're engaged in discussion."
Extracurriculars too, as you just look at them and you say, hey, this person has done X, Y, Z things, like they've done a bunch of Model UN and debate, and they're interested in government. They're interested in government, that's very clear. You'll have other people who are maybe interested in physics, but they are doing music, and they're doing writing and creative writing. That person's doing a lot of different things, so I think the extracurriculars can also help tell what a person's interested in, and then sort of hint at the intangibles.
Laura Rivera Martinez:
I would add that knowing the pool has enabled me to understand the intangibles a lot better, because at first you're just going to read a file, and it feels a bit like reading a file in a vacuum. You don't really have anything in your mind to understand, and we have such a compelling pool as a whole, that it has enabled me to ... understanding the pool has enabled me to understand each candidacy.
Lee Coffin:
Yeah, I think for those of you who are pondering selective places or very selective places, the through line, to use Jackie's word, is quality, and then the job of reading a file, documenting it. I've often, I think back to reader training where I said that there's a documentary read where you're going page by page, and you're distilling that information in a very objective way, and then there's a more editorial read, where you're coming at it and saying, "Now I have to evaluate that. I've documented what's in the folder and now I have to assess it, and to assess it not in the universe of people, but in the pool that has applied to the college where we work," and that's this internal reading dynamic that shifts year to year. Pools grow, they shrink, they grow sideways, but you're going one by one.
How do you see your own personal story informing your work as a reader? I'm looking at Jackie. She just smiled. You're the theater person.
Jaclyn Pageau:
Yeah.
Lee Coffin:
Does your artistry come through reading? It certainly comes through the way you do presentations, but do you also see yourself finding evidence in a file because you see yourself?
Jaclyn Pageau:
Definitely. I think there are so many things that we'll pull through, and it's fun to see applications that remind me of myself at 17. It's fun to see applications that remind me nothing of myself, but I still feel some of the qualities of theater.
Sometimes I'll find applications where I'm like, "You don't know it yet, but you're going to be an actor," and that's really fun. So there's something really interesting about reading these files and meeting them, and getting to bring my own experience to it. I think that's why it's so exciting that we have such a robust group of colleagues that I get to lean on, to have all of their perspectives as well.
I absolutely bring my own experience to that, and I will see students in different ways because of the way that I have lived my life, and because I've spent so much time in the arts. When I read a file of a student who's in the arts, I'm of course excited to see how that has informed their life and changed them, because it did for me.
Lee Coffin:
And Will, you're from Ohio, so as a son of the Midwest, how does that ring through your reading?
Will Keiger:
Well, yes, I grew up in the Midwest, and I guess one thing that I noticed is just having gone to college, not in the Midwest, and then coming back, the first thing is just friendliness, niceness. That's an interesting thing that I think a lot of people, at least where I'm coming from in Ohio, Cleveland, Ohio, take that ... or at least I took that for granted, because that was just a thing that was all around me.
I walked into a CVS after coming back from a college break, and the person at the counter was like, "Hey, how's your day going?" And we had a genuine conversation. It wasn't just the, "Hey, how's it going?" And then, "Pretty well," and then you walk off. It was an actual question that you wanted to be answered.
Lee Coffin:
And you see that quality in the applications from ... you read Ohio and Minnesota and Wisconsin?
Will Keiger:
I think so. Perhaps when I read other territories, it's not as much of a focal point. It is so representative of my territories, which are all mostly basically in the Midwest.
Lee Coffin:
Yeah. And Laura, you have an international background?
Laura Rivera Martinez:
Yeah.
Lee Coffin:
And you're starting to read international territories for the first time.
Laura Rivera Martinez:
Yes. Very exciting.
Lee Coffin:
How's that going? Yeah.
Laura Rivera Martinez:
So I'm originally from Colombia and this year I'm getting to read South America and Central America and the Caribbean, which I'm very excited about the prospect, and I've been reading those, and at first you're trying to understand this different curriculum and how things are graded differently, and people might write recommendations letter in a slightly different way, but I think I'm still looking for the same qualities, those intangibles. And I'm also bringing my own perspective. As someone who's from there, you can see yourself in the applicant, and partly I'm invested in their future.
But yeah, it's like that added humane element. I've heard some of our colleagues say that this is a very humane process, and this really illustrates that for me, that I don't know, at first when I was applying to college, you don't picture people reading the applications. I don't know what I was picturing, but not me reading the application, and sitting down in front of a laptop.
I hope that this podcast would allow students to know and parents, that actually people are reading this, and people who can relate to you and also not relate to you, but I think we're all open-minded people, and welcoming of all different perspectives, and we have such a system or a process that accounts for those biases, which I think it does a pretty good job for a humane process that it is.
Lee Coffin:
So in the spirit of introducing us as people, not robots, let's talk a little bit about where we read and when we read.
So each of you share, are you an owl and you do it at night? Jackie, where do you read?
Jaclyn Pageau:
I read at home. I just bought a home, so I've been turning it into my cozy office, thank you. I also have a dog, so I typically am reading on my couch with my dog napping next to me under a blanket. I've got a good space heater this year that looks like a tiny fireplace but is not, and that has made me feel extra cozy, but I'm definitely a daytime reader. I need to read in the morning, and I need to crank through. And then if I get to lunch and I've hit my halfway point, I'm going to be good for the rest of the day, and if not, I'll be reading for the entire rest of the day, long after the sun is set, because that is my way.
Lee Coffin:
Yeah. Will?
Will Keiger:
Yeah, I am also reading at home. I do not own my own home unfortunately, but one of the things that I really noticed, that's helped immensely this year is sunlight. Reading with sunlight is a must.
So my bedroom very fortunately has two windows that face the sun as it is up throughout the day. So both windows are completely open. I have a sunlight lamp that's also adding to the sunlight, and then I usually maybe light a candle.
It's basically just me setting the environment for, when I read, I want it to look forward to doing it, and so I can at least make the atmosphere as helpful as possible. And so I'll hopefully try to get as many files done as I can in the morning, afternoon, and as Jackie said, if I don't quite hit numbers that I should be, then in the evening I oftentimes have a second wind of energy, like maybe 6:30, 7:00, so-
Lee Coffin:
But do you turn the light bulbs up extra highly? How do you get through your light quotient then?
Will Keiger:
So then I move into a different room usually, and I have a dimmer light. Not quite the sunlight lamp, not that level, but it's more cozy, warm, orange light.
Lee Coffin:
Okay. Laura, where do you read?
Laura Rivera Martinez:
I also read at home, and what I do is I just lock myself in my room. I have a little desk, and I sit down and lock it, and I like to just go as hard as I can in the morning. You start to get tired in the afternoon.
And I also follow one of our colleagues' advice, which is to break it down into fives, which is what I've been doing. So you change locations every couple of files, and that has been working for me.
Lee Coffin:
So when I read, I read at my desk, so just to have a totally different answer to that question. I find that I like being in a "workspace", and I usually put headphones on, so I have music to just keep me focused, but I'm a desk person. I also find that my biorhythm enjoys reading very early in the morning, so I'll get up at six and start reading, and I can zoom through a long queue by late morning. And I notice that I do not do my best work between three and five, so I don't do it between three and five, and I walk the dog, I go to the gym, but I learn how to take timeouts.
Listeners, what you're hearing is the humans who do this work have adjustments we make to be able to meet you where you are with our full attention. And what's nice about reading season is it lets you be cozy if a couch with your dog and a fireplace is your jam. If that works, go for it. I have had colleagues who read all night, like they start at 11:00 PM and they do an all-nighter. I have colleagues who've gone to Starbucks, and they sit there all day out in public. I could never do that. It would be too distracting, but I had a colleague who only could do it if he were at a coffee shop.
Let me try a vocabulary quiz. I'm just going to say some reading-related words, and you each just quickly ... you don't all have to answer it ... but just want to see what you say. So, holistic.
Laura Rivera Martinez:
Multi-dimensional.
Jaclyn Pageau:
All the pieces all at once.
Will Keiger:
Everything can matter.
Lee Coffin:
Merit.
Jaclyn Pageau:
All the pieces all at once.
Laura Rivera Martinez:
I’d probably say excels.
Lee Coffin:
Where do you excel?
Will Keiger:
Yeah, I want to say, this might be a weird one, but passion.
Lee Coffin:
That's not weird. Fit.
Jaclyn Pageau:
How do we both benefit each other? How do you benefit from us and how do we benefit from you?
Lee Coffin:
Symbiotic?
Jaclyn Pageau:
Yeah.
Will Keiger:
Does this person know Dartmouth, and do they want to come here?
Laura Rivera Martinez:
Kind of building off that would be articulated fit. Demonstration of I have done the research, or I know why I'm applying.
Lee Coffin:
Yeah, I catch myself breathing and saying, "You do what we do," or, "We do what you want to do," and that there's a logic to why this person has applied to this place, or represents the community we're trying to build and animate.
Okay, two more. Context.
Jaclyn Pageau:
So important, and so hard to know, but so much of, I feel like my work is figuring out the context someone is coming from, and placing them in that context.
Will Keiger:
I say not everyone is coming from a ultra-savvy, high-powered school, where they do all the extracurriculars and all the academics.
Laura Rivera Martinez:
I think that context adds nuance to a candidacy, and ways for me to understand you better, and ... yeah, just as a whole.
Lee Coffin:
My answer to that one would be we meet you where you are.
Scarcity.
Laura Rivera Martinez:
Don't be scared of scarcity. That's not your problem.
Lee Coffin:
That's a really good way to answer that. Same word, Jackie.
Jaclyn Pageau:
Your job is to present to us who you are. We then have to worry about the fact that there's a limited number of beds somewhere to fill with people, but there's nothing you can do about the fact that our school is small in Hanover, New Hampshire. So don't worry about the scarcity piece. You can't get in if you don't apply, is probably the thing I say the most when I'm meeting students. So apply. If something is a great fit for you, do that, and do your best work on that application, but scarcity is not your issue.
Lee Coffin:
And do you practice what you preach? So as you read, are you thinking about scarcity or are you ignoring it?
Jaclyn Pageau:
I feel like I'm being very pointedly asked this, because I'm very much ignoring it. I am reading in a very positive way, and I am not worried at all about what our final number needs to be, when I'm noting where I put notes down.
Lee Coffin:
Well, I've said this before, you're a happy reader. You definitely meet each one with a rainbow, and I think that's important.
Scarcity. Laura.
Laura Rivera Martinez:
I think when I read, I do have that in mind. Part of me is mindful of that, but also I think that has been something that been doing a lot more gone away from that idea that is scarcity just is how the playing field is, and we can't do anything about it, but more like how can I help this candidacy, highlighting the best possible way for it to go through the process and have a happy ending.
Will Keiger:
And to echo something that was said before, finding reasons to say yes.
Lee Coffin:
Very optimistic way of answering that.
How would you describe reading season in one word?
Will Keiger:
Eye-opening.
Lee Coffin:
How is it eye-opening?
Will Keiger:
I think it's really a privilege and just very cool to meet so many people with so many different backgrounds and interests and things that they've done. You just get to meet a lot of the US, honestly in the world, if you're an international reader.
Jaclyn Pageau:
I would say inspiring.
Lee Coffin:
Nice.
So Will touched this earlier about thinking back to his own high school moment, and how his work as a reader makes him rethink that. Jackie and Laura, what's on your mind as you think about the high school senior version of you, knowing what you know now?
Jaclyn Pageau:
I am very grateful that I was so unaware of so much of this process when I applied to college. I think time. I am six years out of college now, so I applied quite a while ago, but I think the world has only gotten more stressful, and there's only become more and more pressure on this, and I'm very grateful that I was simply unaware of that when I applied to college, and I applied to Dartmouth because it would be so cool if I got in and then I did, and I ended up here and that is wonderful.
But I've become so aware that it's not everyone's reality when they're applying to college, and so I think the more you can find balance in knowing what you need to do, and knowing that this is important and could potentially figure out where your next four years at least are going to be, but also remembering to go get ice cream with your friends, and still have fun in your senior year, and not let this consume your life as much as you possibly can, even though that it's not always in your control.
I think about that a lot, because I am aware that our work causes quite a bit of stress for many 17 and 18-year-olds across the world every year, but you're already so cool and so wonderful, and you just need to write it down and tell us that.
Laura Rivera Martinez:
And I think very similarly to what you just said, Jackie. I have to remind myself, "Okay, can I give everybody and myself grace?" Every single applicant that I meet is so impressive in so many different ways, and so giving credit where credit is due, and doing my best to, again, make the best case for them and just thinking about, "Wow, I'm just really quite impressed with them."
And if I knew what I know now back then, I think I'd be so much more stressed, but also maybe more savvy, and I would've done different things, maybe elaborated a different application, but whatever I did back then led me to where I am now.
Lee Coffin:
That's right. It worked.
Laura Rivera Martinez:
Yes, it worked. It worked.
Lee Coffin:
Yeah. So Laura, Jackie, Will, thanks for coming back on Admissions Beat for a reunion of our learning to read cast. And I smile as I listen to the three of you share your reflections on the work we've been doing for the last two months with the end in sight, but we're not there yet.
Listeners, we've got a couple more weeks of reading and then committee, and it's where the reading becomes the jury pool, and we get to present what we've read to a group of peers to make the case one by one to get someone in. But I hope listeners, you heard my three colleagues tell you about their work during reading season with the enthusiasm and the commitment and the integrity they bring to it.
And sometimes the answer is a yes. Sometimes the answer is, "We're sorry," but either way it bounces, it's something that has been well-considered. So thank you all for the pod, and thanks for being admission officers at Dartmouth.
Jaclyn Pageau:
Thank you.
Laura Rivera Martinez:
Thank you.
Lee Coffin:
Yeah. We'll be back next week, but for now, I'm Lee Coffin, from Dartmouth College. Thanks for listening.