Holistic? Full demonstrated need? Optional? Admissions and financial aid officers sometimes speak a particular kind of language...but everyone navigating a college search is not always as fluent in "ed-speak." A dean, a guidance counselor, and a financial aid director offer a translation guide to the essential concepts of a college search.
Holistic? Full demonstrated need? Optional? Admissions and financial aid officers sometimes speak a particular kind of language...but everyone navigating a college search is not always as fluent in "ed-speak." A dean, a guidance counselor, and a financial aid director offer a translation guide to the essential concepts of a college search.
Lee Coffin:
From Hanover, New Hampshire, I'm Lee Coffin, Dartmouth's vice president and dean of admissions and financial aid, and this is Admissions Beat.
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Sometimes when we do our work in admissions and financial aid, we use words and phrases that insiders understand, but the general public says, "Huh?" That quizzical look from an audience happens more often than I would like. And so it occurred to me it would be a good idea to do a glossary. My colleague Dino Koff at Dartmouth often says there's highered-speak, and then there's the way the rest of the world talks.
And so in that spirit, we're bringing you a translation episode of all the ins and outs of admissions and financial aid so that as you listen and explore, you speak the same language we're speaking. So when we come back, we will say hi to Dino and two returning friends of the pod translating admissions and financial aid speak. We'll be right back.
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So Dino, I pre-introduced you.
Dino Koff:
Life is good.
Lee Coffin:
Yeah. Welcome back to Admissions Beat. For listeners, Dino is assistant vice president and executive director of financial aid at Dartmouth, a role he's had for over a decade as well as many similar roles before that. But Dino is particularly tuned into this idea of translating our work for laypeople. And so Dino, I'm excited to have you help translate the work we do.
Dino Koff:
Such an important topic.
Lee Coffin:
Yeah, it is. Joining us is Diane Scott, the co-director of college placement at Academy of the Pacific Rim in Boston. Hi, Diane.
Diane Scott:
Hi, Lee.
Lee Coffin:
To listeners, that fancy sounding school name belies what it is. What is it, Diane?
Diane Scott:
It is a charter school in Boston, even though it's Pacific Rim, serving mostly first gen, low income students from Boston whose families are really seeking that college opportunity who are mostly non-college families.
Lee Coffin:
Yeah.
Diane Scott:
And it's Pacific Rim because we have a sister school, Beijing No. 80, and Mandarin is the one language we offer as a school.
Lee Coffin:
Thank you for adding that because when I first learned that many, many years ago, I thought, how cool is that? So an interesting twinning of low income and global. And in addition to your work at APR, you are also the co-director of college placement at the Crimson Summer Academy. What's that?
Diane Scott:
That's a three-year residential program run by Harvard University for also first-gen low-income scholars, top students from all of the Cambridge, Somerville, and Boston schools.
Lee Coffin:
Yeah. So you come to this topic with a lot of insight from families and students who really don't have the language we all use.
Diane Scott:
Indeed. An ed-speak translator.
Lee Coffin:
Yeah. An ed-speak translator. I like that. Ed speak. And then rounding out this week's trio of co-stars is Matthew Hyde, the vice president and dean of admissions and financial aid at Trinity College. Hi, Matt.
Matthew Hyde:
Hey Lee. Go Bantams. Hi Diane and Dino.
Lee Coffin:
So all three of you are Admissions Beat veterans, so it's lovely to have you back. When I first proposed this topic what did you think, Diane?
Diane Scott:
Yeah, like I say, I feel like I do ed-speak translation for a living. It's part of what I do.
Lee Coffin:
Matt, do you speak in ed-speak?
Matthew Hyde:
Fluent. I took AP ed-speak under you at Tufts, Lee. No, I would say I have fluency. I don't dream in it the way that some do, but I'm fluent there. But an important topic because there's already so much unknowability behind selective college admissions and financial aid that we cloud and make it more confusing with some of the silliness we put out there in the language that we use.
Lee Coffin:
Yeah. I think we don't even realize we're doing it. I think over time the policies have created a language that we use that makes sense to us when we say it, but it doesn't always make sense to someone that's not in the work 24/7. And Dino, you and I talk about this all the time.
Dino Koff:
When I said earlier it's such an important topic, I continue to think about this language that on the financial aid side, when we talk about money, it's always for some families new conversation. And then when we throw in the higher ed lingo, we've just made it more complicated. So perfect timing to have this conversation.
Lee Coffin:
Let's start on the admission side. We often do presentations that talk about “holistic review.” What does holistic mean, Matt?
Matthew Hyde:
I think simply put, it's beyond the numbers, beyond the data. Who are you and what do you bring to the table in terms of the more squishy sort of human values that you embody and embrace? So we're super curious how students lean into life and learning and the energy they bring to it. So it is awfully subjective, but we're looking for that energy to engage, to invest, and involve themselves in meaningful ways beyond the academic, co-curricularly, extracurricularly, socially, who they are becoming as this emerging young adult. And oftentimes it's encapsulated in how they invest their time. I mean, you think about it, these students have the currency of time. How are they investing it and what does that tell us about them?
Lee Coffin:
Yeah.
Matthew Hyde:
Is that helpful?
Lee Coffin:
Yeah, I think it-
Diane Scott:
Sure.
Lee Coffin:
I mean, Diane, what would you say as you listen to admission officers come into your school and talk to kids about holistic admissions?
Diane Scott:
I would say that was a perfect definition and that really resonates with our students because I think they know that if this is about chasing the numbers, they're behind often, right? And if this is about you really want to know me, who I am, what I care about, what I want to study, what I want access to intellectually, and socially, and culturally, I think that feels very good and very reassuring, that I will be seen. They're often kids, I mean, I mentioned first-gen, low-income and almost all students of color that I work with, a lot of immigrant students and recent immigrants as well as immigrants' children. And to feel like someone really wants to hear, and see me, and understand me in this process of my young adult development, that should be a comfort to everyone, I think actually, regardless of who you are in this process.
Lee Coffin:
Yeah, and I think that's right. And I would add on to the holistic definition and say to listeners, it means you are a whole person, that the Common App, or the institutional app, or the Universal App, whatever application you're using is introducing you in many parts. Holistic means the sum of those many parts, not just your transcript, not just your transcript and testing, but all these pieces in combination make up a holistic review. And an interesting fact is most of the selective colleges in the country have been practicing holistic review for over 100 years. There's a plaque in the Dartmouth Admission Office. It started in 1921. And a double interesting trivia, in that first class at Dartmouth of holistic review was an applicant called Theodor Geisel. Diane, do you know who that is?
Diane Scott:
Sure. Dr. Seuss.
Lee Coffin:
Dr. Seuss, Dartmouth class in 1925, popped out of the very first class Dartmouth ever admitted with holistic evaluation. And I'd like to think his creativity and artistry was something my predecessors a century ago saw. But anyway, that's holistic.
Matthew Hyde:
Cool. Very quickly here, speaking of stories and Dr. Seuss, I mean, I think holistic review is about acknowledging that every single student has a story to tell, that their voice, their presence on this earth is distinctly theirs. And I like to think that through this whole effort of applying to college, they become more aware of it.
Lee Coffin:
Yeah.
Matthew Hyde:
And holistic review shows we're interested in your story. There's meaning to it and we can't wait to get to know it.
Lee Coffin:
Yep. And I'll go one step further on the Dr. Seuss riff. He's famous for saying, "Oh, the places you'll go." And I think that, and that's a nod to potential.
Matthew Hyde:
Yeah.
Diane Scott:
Do you know what, Lee? I actually use that at the end of my class with the first year students at Crimson Summer Academy as my send-off. I read that-
Lee Coffin:
"Oh, the places you'll go."
Diane Scott:
Out loud to them.
Lee Coffin:
You do?
Diane Scott:
We do milk and cookies. We kick it old style. Sometimes-
Lee Coffin:
Nice.
Diane Scott:
You need a little comfort. And I love that book because it says you're going to be great and sometimes you won't and you need to rely on other folks. And yes, you're still off to great places, right?
Dino Koff:
That's awesome.
Lee Coffin:
All right. So another phrase which dips into both admissions and financial aid is merit. So Diane, how do people hear the word merit?
Diane Scott:
A lot of the families with whom I work don't know what it means or are just thinking sort of D1 scholarship, that's what that means.
Lee Coffin:
They go right to money.
Diane Scott:
Right to money for sure. But I think people get confused about that quite a bit. I guess that's the way I'd put it.
Lee Coffin:
Yeah.
Diane Scott:
What is that? How do I get it? And what do you mean there are these schools that don't do merit awarding?
Lee Coffin:
Yeah. Dino, what's your reaction there?
Dino Koff:
Yeah, so when I hear merit, I'm always thinking about talent and ability. Diane brought up athletics, for example, and you can be the best painter, that's talent and ability. You can have amazing standardized test scores, amazing GPA. You can also be the best soccer player. You can be the best actor, right? So there are many different things that schools will define what merit is, that talent and ability. And some schools, as Diane's saying, are giving scholarships, free money, that money that doesn't need to be repaid for merit. Not all schools do. For example, in the Ivy League, we're 100% need based, which doesn't look at merit. But one thing that I think you're going to get to, Lee, is when we say merit, for schools like Dartmouth, that stays with admissions because that's what's getting you admitted and all of those great qualities. But some schools give out money because of talent and ability, and that's part of the homework of finding out what schools do that.
Lee Coffin:
Merit connects back to the holistic word where we're saying holistic means some of the parts, merit, achievement sits in all of those pieces. But I think a lot of applicants think merit means I have all As, and when testing is part of the story, I have big scores, period. Merit is a statistical definition. Matt, that's not true though, is it?
Matthew Hyde:
No, we can assign quote, unquote merit, what we value to whatever we want institutionally. So yeah, there's certainly a merit to those who crush high school, and that's reflected beautifully in a transcript or in testing. That's awesome. Happy to assign merit to that, but we also acknowledge if in a holistic space, we can assign merit to many other qualities that are less sort of measurable.
Lee Coffin:
Like what?
Matthew Hyde:
The willingness someone has to be a consensus builder in a diverse space, thinking about students who invest their time and energy in affinity groups and build connection and care amongst those who want to learn about their identities and explore across them. There's merit to that. How do you measure that? There's no sort of AP empathy class, is there? No, but we assign a lot of merit to those who have empathy and care about other people, especially those with whom they share differences. And yes, we want students who are academically strong and capable, if not competitive and compelling, but we are so much more interested in students who want to lean into a dynamic, diverse community with the right kind of energy and attitude. And how do we find that? We assign merit to that. That's where it gets a little bit squishy, but I love working at a college where we can take the time to know and care for their applicants and their stories.
Lee Coffin:
Yeah. I mean, I would say merit is statistical, as we've just described. It's also qualitative. Do we value people who are curious? Yes.
Matthew Hyde:
Yeah, true.
Lee Coffin:
That's a type of merit. Do we value people who are creative? Yes, that's a type of merit. Do we value people who have an analytical ability? Yep. So these are things that every college might not weigh them quite the same way, but these count. These are pieces of this puzzle that go towards merit. And connected to that is this idea of context. Matt, what does that mean?
Matthew Hyde:
Students' stories all have different backdrops in terms of the experiences that they've had culturally, ethnically, socioeconomically, the support they've gotten from home or not. Context is mission-critical for us. And when I've taken dives into applications, the first thing I'm looking at is trying to get a sense of where's the student applying from? What's their deal at home, in school? Because I need to adjust my expectations and the lens that I'm looking through based on the context from which they're applying.
Lee Coffin:
Yep. Dino, does context matter in financial aid?
Dino Koff:
I think it does. Maybe when we think of context, and especially need-based aid, what do the numbers mean? And for example, someone earning $50,000 in New York City, that's the context of that. That's not going as far as maybe earning $50,000 in a less urban area with a lower cost of a living. So it's always looking at the context. How big is a family? If a family of five is going to have more expenses for day-to-day living than a family of two. And so it's always looking at the lens of what context are we using here?
Lee Coffin:
Yeah. So when we use the word context in this enrollment space, we're talking about the environment from which you emerge, your school, your neighborhood, your town, your state, your country, like these expanding circles of where and how help us understand what. Let's ping over to financial aid for a second, and two words we all use interchangeably, and I'm going to bet Diane's going to say, "Yep, and nobody understands the difference." And those two words are grant and scholarship.
Dino Koff:
I just like to say free money, money that doesn't have to be repaid.
Diane Scott:
We say there's three types of aid you're going to see. You're going to see free money, you're going to see borrowed money, and you're going to see earned money.
Lee Coffin:
That is a really pragmatic dual lingo translation of scholarship and grant.
Dino Koff:
You could add savings in there, if a family had savings and their own resources, but it isn't good enough in my mind to say financial aid. "Oh, I received 30,000 in financial aid." Might be true, but I love the way Diane's talking about it is because break it out. There's a big difference of a $30,000 free money, or is it 20,000 in free money, 5,000 in earned money, and 5,000 in loan? Much different scenario than just saying financial aid at the top level. We need to continue to break it out.
Lee Coffin:
I love this new framing of free, borrowed, and earned, but until everybody adopts that trio, we're still stuck with these interchangeable words, scholarship or grant. So grant, scholarship, same thing? Dino?
Dino Koff:
More and more places are using it interchangeably. I think historically, if you looked at grants, they would be need-based. So a Pell grant from the federal government based on need. If you look at historically scholarship, you're looking at merit-based or talent and ability.
Lee Coffin:
Okay.
Dino Koff:
Free money is probably the next step because schools, agencies, different organizations are interchangeably using those words.
Lee Coffin:
Okay, helpful. All right, so let's take one step over to a similar financial aid topic, which is we meet 100% of demonstrated need. What do they hear us say? Is it like the Charlie Brown adult going “womp womp, womp?”
Diane Scott:
No, I think we have educated our students where that is definitely what they are hoping to hear.
Lee Coffin:
Okay.
Diane Scott:
And there are so few of you wonderful institutions that are truly able to meet 100% of demonstrated need. We love that, and we help students understand what that means. So meeting 100% of demonstrated need means to us, we explain to families how is demonstrated need calculated and the simplest based on starting with the FAFSA, here we're going to get all into it, starting with the FAFSA and then using the CSS profile for a broader view of multiple year income as well as assets. And we explain to families why that is the most equitable way to award aid. Then there is a number determined by that formula. And so meeting 100% of demonstrated need coming all the way to that determination, whether that is zero in some cases now, maybe even negative, or whether that's 12,000 a year, 36,000 a year, depending on the family and their resources.
Lee Coffin:
Yep. And that's where the free money, the borrowed money, and the earned money covers that need.
Dino Koff:
I like to say when I hear 100% of demonstrated need, meeting 100% of demonstrated need, the cost of the education, all the costs, not just tuition, but minus a family ability to pay, and that is fully covered, could be covered with free scholarship or grants, so free money, could be covered with work, could be covered with loans, but a school is able to meet 100% by giving you that amount. And there's like 50 or 60 schools in the country that are able to say they meet 100% of demonstrated need out of about 4,200 accredited schools. So it's a very limited number, but cost of education, cost of attendance minus family ability to pay equals demonstrated need.
Lee Coffin:
You can see how this gets confusing. Matt, what are you thinking as you're listening to all this?
Matthew Hyde:
In my mind, just to try to keep it super simple is we're not going to gap a family, and I'm introducing another term there, “gap.”
Lee Coffin:
That's okay.
Matthew Hyde:
We will make Trinity affordable or Dartmouth affordable based on your circumstances, period. We met 100% of need, or I say sometimes calculated need to even confuse us even further, but the reality is we'll make it affordable for you attend based on your resources.
Lee Coffin:
Let's add another financial aid word, typical assets. So places will say this initiative is for families making X thousand dollars with typical assets. And again, most families will say, "Well, what's a typical asset?"
Dino Koff:
The term typical assets is there to protect a college or university. And let me explain. If there's a family making $65,000 and they have assets of $1.5 million, you have to say, "Is that normal for that income group of 65,000 to have $1.5 million in assets?"
Lee Coffin:
Dino, how could that example be true?
Dino Koff:
It can be true because when you look at assets, some schools will be looking at savings accounts, investments accounts, checking accounts, and real estate, both primary home and investment properties. So it's very possible that you bought a home for $500,000, it's now worth, especially in the last couple of years, it's now worth a million dollars. That may not be typical though for your income group. And so you still may get aid, but it just might mean you don't have typical assets for your income band. And so again, it's there to protect where we've had people with $100,000 in income and $3 million in assets, not typical, still could qualify maybe, but you'll be asked to use some of your assets to cover your tuition bill.
Lee Coffin:
I'll give you a pragmatic example from last year. We had an applicant that I was convinced was a low income student and came back as not, and I said to Dino, "How could this family not be low income?" And he said, "They have multiple rental properties worth X million, and they get Z thousands a month from those rental properties." So while the job and the salary look low, these non-typical assets are taking what seems like a low income background and turning it into someone who's not eligible for that same kind of aid. So that's just an example of when we use the phrase typical assets, most people have typical assets, but sometimes they don't. Let's ping back over to admissions for a sec. So a lot of us will introduce our institution as highly selective. What does that mean, Matt?
Matthew Hyde:
It's a pretty simple ratio between how many applicants you have applying and how many offers you're going to extend. So I think those being highly selective generally have an admission rate of below 30% of their applicant pool. And places like Trinity are sort of hover in that space of being highly selective, but we're still very accessible even though we're highly selective because we're going to have many, many more offers of admission than we do places in our class. A large applicant pool and few spots to offer.
Lee Coffin:
Scarcity.
Matthew Hyde:
Scarcity, yes. That would've been a lot easier to say it that way.
Lee Coffin:
No, it's okay. But Diane, I've heard a lot of your colleagues on the school side introduce a new phrase, “highly rejective.”
Diane Scott:
Ooh, I don't like that.
Lee Coffin:
I don't like that either.
Diane Scott:
I have not heard that that much, and I don't use it because we tell kids a lot, even in highly selective institutions, if you believe in holistic review, which we do, and we know that you all do, of course it's very difficult to make those decisions, but a lot of care, and time, and committee work, and arguments maybe go into building the class, and it truly is building the class, not just admitting each individual student. And so we say, "They are not reading your application looking to reject you, even at highly selective institutions. They really are looking," as Matt had said earlier, "to see you and your stories," and in your full context, these are really the numbers because these schools are highly desirable. How about highly desirable institutions? There are a lot of highly desirable institutions, but-
Lee Coffin:
I don't like the “rejected”
Diane Scott:
I don't like “highly rejective.”
Lee Coffin:
No, I don't either.
Diane Scott:
Because you all are not in that business.
Lee Coffin:
Correct. There's a word that I'm going to say that I think causes the most agita among everybody. And the word is, it's going to be like a game show. The word is optional. Is it a trick word, Matt?
Matthew Hyde:
It's not a trick word. Optional truly does mean optional. You don't have to do this to complete an application. That stated-
Lee Coffin:
It's not a synonym for required?
Matthew Hyde:
Well, I mean, if you're not completing an optional prompt or essay, you're leaving money on the table in a way. I mean, we want to get to know you and your story, and that optional sort of components add more meat to the bone. They give us more to work with, but you don't have to do it.
Lee Coffin:
Diane, do people believe us?
Diane Scott:
Yes and no. I do think a lot of the students that I work with say optional means, they're like, "You're expected to do it," or "How am I going to show up in the process if I don't do it?" They feel a pressure for sure. I think already knowing how competitive highly selective admissions is, and maybe they haven't had access to the same level of coursework, the same level of independent research, the same level of international travel, et cetera, et cetera, even SAT and ACT prep. So I think they feel like optional is definitely required for me. That said, we do a lot of talking, as Matt said, about it's about giving you another place to show up with your authentic voice if it's not already reflected in the application. That's why they're saying optional. They don't have time to read a whole lot of other material if it is already well reflected in your application, and that's kind of how I counsel around it.
Lee Coffin:
Yeah. Yeah, I think that's right. But for my whole career, I shake my head how many times someone says to me, "Is it really optional?" And it could be an interview, it could be testing, it could be a peer recommendation, it could be an optional essay. I mean, there are all of these spaces where a college says, "Here's another chance to shine if you choose to." But I think it's one of the words in our vocabulary that I think has the most skepticism about its intent. Yeah.
Diane Scott:
I would agree.
Lee Coffin:
Okay. Yeah.
Diane Scott:
Can we pivot over to the test optional since you said-
Lee Coffin:
I was just going to... Yes, of course. Go there.
Diane Scott:
Because that's another one with all the lingo, right? It used to be you just had to worry about what is the difference between the SAT and the ACT. Obviously in the pandemic, everything went test optional. Now things are coming back, but we have, let's see, help me out here, friends. We have test optional, test flexible, test blind. UC system is test blind, but they want to call it test free just to further confuse things, not use the same term. That in and itself is one piece of admissions that has so much lingo around it.
Lee Coffin:
So explain the lingo.
Diane Scott:
Straightforward test requiring means you have to submit the SAT or the ACT, and colleges do not have a preference either way. That's a common misconception that maybe was true at one point a long, long time ago, but has been not true for a long time. Test optional, truly meaning you can submit your scores if you feel like they are a great reflection of your abilities and your talents and you want to share them, but it's truly optional to share them or not share them. That will not go against you if you don't share scores in the admissions process. Test flexible, which I don't see as many of anymore, but there are some still, that say you can share a score with us. We would like to see some external measure that is beyond your school's grading policy of how you do achievement-wise across the board subjects.
You can submit an ACT, an SAT, AP scores, IB scores, et cetera. And test blind is the last one if we truly will not consider them. So if you've got perfect scores and everything, please don't share them with us because we are truly doing holistic review without any test scores.
Lee Coffin:
Thank you. That was very clear. One more question on testing. So a lot of us will talk about our average SAT or ACT, and a student might say, "Well, I can't apply. I'm below that average score." Is an average SAT, what does that mean? And is that an accurate way for an applicant to be looking at her competitiveness at an institution? Matthew?
Matthew Hyde:
It's not. I mean, we had talked about context earlier and recognize that students have had different experiences and opportunities to be prepared for a high stakes test. So we're putting that in context. A student who rolls out of a very well-resourced neighborhood with strong support at their high school will have a stronger average SAT coming out of that high school or ACT, and we'll put a student's performance in that context. A student applying from a lesser resourced public or charter high school, they might have testing below our means from the institution, but they're crushing the means and averages of their high school. That's telling to us and we're happy to see that. So in the end, I just hope students don't append any self-worth to the outcome of a big test. And I love that so many colleges are optional and they truly mean optional in that space.
Lee Coffin:
Think of your score locally. What's your high school profile? Ask your guidance counselor, "What's the average score from this place?" And then how do you compare to that average? That's what we see. And so your score, you could be at a rural public high school where very few people take standardized testing, and those who do are scoring around 1000 and you've got a 1250, that's a really wonderful score out of that rural environment. That's context. And that's where the average SAT that the college reports doesn't really help you see, "Well, how does my score reflect where I am?" Diane, you've said many times you work with first gen students. Who is that?
Diane Scott:
Yeah, first generation college goers, meaning that neither parent, if they have two parents in their lives, have had the opportunity to earn a bachelor's degree or higher in the United States.
Lee Coffin:
Yep. In the United States. So what if your parents have a PhD from Poland and you're living now in the United States in a more low income environment? Are you first-gen?
Diane Scott:
It'd be interesting to hear you and Matt talk about that, but I mean, we know that a lot of degrees from other places around the world are not accepted and respected in the United States. So I have had people with PhDs driving cabs I've been in.
Lee Coffin:
Yeah. Yeah. I would describe those families as first-gen adjacent. The strict definition is they have college degrees, so they're not in the spirit of first gen access. However, the lifestyle is not a high income one in some of these cases, and so we acknowledge that. How about an acronym that some students may hear and not know it applies to them? It's H-A-L-I, high achieving, low income. So a lot of the community-based organizations will say, "We work with HALI students," and it's like, "Well, who's that?" I think that's Diane's school, achieving low-income kids.
Diane Scott:
And that's definitely Crimson Summer Academy, although we don't use that terminology, but-
Lee Coffin:
Yeah. but colleges do. So it's a good example of colleges say it, but you're an access organization that doesn't, even though that's who you serve.
Financial aid, Dino, “zero parent contribution.”
Dino Koff:
So definitely the higher ed term. And so students and families are filling out different forms and a college comes up with a contribution ability to pay. And using that term of a zero parent contribution, that is basically saying that we're not asking for the parents to make a payment towards the cost of attendance. There still may be a student contribution. It may be in the form of using Diane's words of earned, you're earning income, you're working. It could be that you're still taking a loan out, the student is taking a loan, but a zero parent contribution is saying that the family won't have an ability to pay.
Lee Coffin:
How about “free tuition?” That's the new buzz headline across higher ed. Dino, what does that mean?
Dino Koff:
So that is definitely the buzz. The media has picked up on this. And when we hear free tuition or full ride, sometimes people are referring to tuition. Free tuition is just what it sounds like, which is that if tuition at a school is $60,000, you won't pay 60,000 for that tuition. You'll have it fully covered by scholarship, or grant, or by money that you don't have to pay back. What makes me a little nervous about hearing free tuition is many schools, you still may have 19, 20, $22,000 that you still have to pay for housing, and food, and transportation, and books, and miscellaneous items, personal items, things like that. And that's why I get nervous when I hear free tuition because someone might be so excited. They may be a low income student. They might have an income of $60,000 and they got a $60,000 scholarship, but they still may owe 20 or $22,000 on top of that. And that's why the media's picking up on it, families jump on it, but you have to, again, context, take a look at the full picture.
Lee Coffin:
The cost of attendance, which I think a lot of families miss as the most important number. Matt, what's the cost of attendance?
Matthew Hyde:
That's sort of all in. Yes, the build expenses, tuition, room, board fees, but full cost, we start factoring in some of the unbilled expenses and what it costs to get here and to not just survive here, but to thrive.
Lee Coffin:
Books.
Matthew Hyde:
Yes.
Lee Coffin:
Pizza.
Matthew Hyde:
Pizza.
Lee Coffin:
Health insurance.
Matthew Hyde:
Health insurance. Yep, you need that.
Lee Coffin:
Yeah. So all of those things go into this more macro-
Matthew Hyde:
All in.
Lee Coffin:
Number and places that meet full need are basing the aid award on that number.
Matthew Hyde:
Yeah, comprehensive cost.
Lee Coffin:
Yeah. And this other slippery phrase that dances around cost of attendance is “net price.” So we're getting really wonky, but the net price is really important and I think a lot of families miss it. Dino?
Dino Koff:
Cost of attendance. Matt used the word comprehensive. I think about it as, as Matt said all in, it is all your educational expenses. Net price, the cost of attendance might be, for example, at an expensive private school, $100,000. But what is the cost to the student or the cost to the family? That is the net price. And so if 50% of the student body is on free money, scholarships or grants from the college, that means 50% are paying 100,000 and 50% are paying less. And so for families, their job is to find out what their cost is going to be, and the term is net price. So cost of attendance minus free money, not financial aid because you have to repay loans, you have to work to get paid, so it's minus the scholarships and grants, that's your net cost. And for all the listeners, that's part of your homework now, is to find out what the cost is to you.
With that homework, every school that takes federal funds is required to have a net price calculator. That calculator will be on a school's website and you can fill that out to find out what the cost will be for you. This is going to take a little bit of time. A true net price calculator for some schools that are need-based aid, you'll want to have your taxes. It'll tell you what forms to have. Some schools have an estimator that you can use. MyinTuition is one that is a quick three minute and 27-second calculator to fill out. It'll give you an estimate, but it's really important to take the time, especially early on in the process, to try to find financially feasible schools and making sure that your comfort level is okay. And this is part of the research to do to find out the cost to you, the net price.
Lee Coffin:
And then to families like mine, which were aid dependent, and I remember my parents looking at the cost of attendance and getting scared. What they really should have been doing had we known, was looking at the net price and saying, okay, this is a more manageable amount than we understood. And that's why I'm highlighting cost of attendance, which is what all of us put in the brochures versus the net price, which is a more individualized way of thinking about this.
Diane Scott:
Since we're talking about terms, I think it's helpful when we use the same language. So instead of saying cost of attendance and then what's your net price, I find it helpful when people will say, "Not the sticker price, the net price." And then we can help families even understand, in my case, looking at your gross wages versus your net wages and people understand then what is net, right? That means after the deductions, right? I think that can be really helpful. And I would say net price calculators have probably been the biggest access innovation in my career because it does show that very expensive institutions, if you can get in, can be affordable for a family that has no resources to contribute.
Lee Coffin:
Yeah.
Diane Scott:
They've been phenomenal.
Lee Coffin:
Yep, I agree. I agree. Okay, a couple last questions. Fee waiver. Diane, what's a fee waiver?
Diane Scott:
A fee waiver is when there is a required fee in general for applicants, but your family's financial circumstances mean that you could get that waived. So application fee waivers for the Common Application or other applications. I love that the CSS profile builds in fee waivers just based on the answers that you're giving. Could be fee waivers for AP registrations, sending test scores. There are a lot of ways that families who are really, really struggling, even with what many people might consider a smaller amount of money, can be waived to make the process truly affordable and equitable.
Dino Koff:
What's incredible is Diane just said three or four different processes that cost money. And so knowing-
Diane Scott:
Right.
Dino Koff:
That there are waivers out there that people new to the process might not even know that you would have or potentially face these fees, it's wonderful to have options out there, levers to pull to be able to say that this is doable for lower income families, that they can get this waived.
Lee Coffin:
Matt, when people get a fee waiver, is that held against them in any way?
Dino Koff:
No.
Matthew Hyde:
Not at all. We acknowledge that there are costs to this whole experience and some families can do it without blinking an eye, others can't. And so we don't pass any judgment on that. There's no factor in our assessment of their quality and their talent.
Lee Coffin:
Correct. Okay. A couple questions that are not... They're more concepts more than words. So we're airing in early October. The first deadlines are a couple weeks away, and those all start with the word early, and then some are called early decision and some are called early action. And hiding under early action is this quirky little one called single choice early action. What does that mean, Matt?
Matthew Hyde:
So early decision, early action, it just creates an opportunity for students to apply to their colleges earlier than they would've otherwise if they're in the regular decision space and to hear back earlier. Early decision versus early action. Early decision is quote, unquote binding in that you are staking a claim that if offered admission as an early decision candidate, you're going to enroll and you will withdraw applications elsewhere unless financial aid becomes a situation that you need to suss out at other institutions, in which case the binding disappears very quickly after that.
Lee Coffin:
For an early action or EA school, student applies early, gets a decision early, does not need to make an enrollment decision until May 1st. If it's single choice, early action, and there's just a few of them, but those colleges are saying, "You can have this non-binding round, but only here." Versus I was talking to someone the other day and he said, "I'm applying to as many early action places as I can." And I said, "Why?" And he said, "I want to get it over with." So fair in his logic, but early action, single choice are saying, "eh, eh, just here." Okay. What about deadlines? So what does a deadline mean, Diane?
Diane Scott:
A deadline means the last possible opportunity to fulfill the requirements. And I say that passionately because there's a lot of stress and a lot of procrastination that happens or competing priorities in fall of senior year particularly. And so my biggest advice would be don't work to the deadline, give yourself... Do the backwards planning. But a deadline means the last opportunity to hit submit on an application, whether it is for admissions or financial aid.
Lee Coffin:
Yep. But here's the funny little but on that. It doesn't mean all of your elements must arrive by that date. So the-
Diane Scott:
True.
Lee Coffin:
Student activated pieces have to be submitted on that deadline. A teacher recommendation could come in two weeks later, three weeks later. So what's hiding under deadline and if you look at our inboxes around the deadline, there's a lot of nervous people who go on a portal and say, "My Spanish teacher didn't send the recommendation." It's like, "Maybe it's on its way. It just hasn't hit our mail room yet or it hasn't been uploaded yet." Those elements could come in after the deadline. The deadline means the student portion of the application must be submitted by the deadline. Last one is related to email or mail. I've heard students say, "Oh, I'm getting mail from Trinity. I'm being recruited." Is that true, Matt?
Matthew Hyde:
They're being engaged, that's for sure. And I would argue that they've been identified in one way or another, or they've identified themselves and we are actively informing them more deeply about Trinity. So I think it's fair to say that they're being recruited by us because we want them to-
Lee Coffin:
Does it mean they're getting in?
Matthew Hyde:
Doesn't mean they're getting in. Nope, not necessarily. It means we hope to have the honor of reviewing their application and we see them as a potential great fit for us, but we need a full application to make that assessment. So it doesn't mean they're getting in, but it does mean that we're actively pursuing them as a candidate.
Lee Coffin:
Yeah. I've often said, "It means we want to have a conversation with you. We'd like to introduce ourselves to you and vice versa when the application comes."
Matthew Hyde:
Yes. Get excited about us.
Lee Coffin:
Yeah, excited about us. Did I miss anything as we were going through all of these terms and ideas? Diane, are there other things that you hear in your college counseling work where people scratch their head and they say, huh?
Diane Scott:
We did not talk about “demonstrated interest.”
Lee Coffin:
Oh yeah, what's that?
Diane Scott:
That has become sort of a hot phrase. I think it is showing that engagement that Matt just talked about with an institution, but what does that look like? Who does factor that into the process? Who doesn't? I think that's a whole area that's a bit confusing, to be frank, sometimes to counselors as well as to students and families. You're trying to see if they're a fit for you as much as you will then give your application to see if you are a fit for them.
Lee Coffin:
Yeah. And the colleges and universities that track demonstrated interest and perhaps use it as an admission factor, not a big one, but maybe on the margins, are usually sorting large pools of qualified students who applied at the buzzer with no previous connection to that college. So the conversation Matt and I were just talking about hasn't happened, and it's January 2nd, look at all these people who came out of the woodwork. And trying to figure out the fit is a little harder for that group. And what I think places are also wondering is, are we one of dozens of places you applied or are we on a short list where you know where you've applied, you've made the case, and we can see you here? And what was your other one, Diane?
Diane Scott:
This is more an area, and I would say really training admissions officers, which you guys do a great job of, but we're speaking to the nation here. Training admissions officers particularly, I would say in general, but particularly when they're coming to a school that has a high percentage of first generation college goers is to slow down a little bit, even in the ed-speak about the highlights of your school, because there's so much language embedded in there that I wind up explaining to students often after the rep has left. Things like, for example, in academics, obviously people are used to majors and minors, but then plus ones and three plus twos, applied and connected learning opportunities. Most students and families that I work with know of internships, but then people talk about externships, and co-ops, and practicums and so much that is just said and said so quickly, and they're phenomenal opportunities.
But if you haven't lived in this world and you can't go home and be like, "I heard this thing, what does this mean? Let's look it up together," it's pretty difficult to follow. Even we talk to students about calendars, how can a calendar, the college's calendar system make differential opportunities, right? So you have the traditional semesters, which everyone thinks about that's college, but you have quarter systems, and there's so much of that that I feel like first-gen students in particular can even have a harder time finding the fit if they don't understand all of what those opportunities are and how it might really give them a different experience. Admissions officers often, they don't have much time and they have to go rapidly through their spiel, but if they could slow down a little bit and explain some of that terminology, I think it could be helpful.
Lee Coffin:
I think that's great. Last word from Dino or Matt?
Matthew Hyde:
Don't be quiet about what you don't understand. There are those of us who love this work and care deeply for the folks who, again, like I said, honor us with their interest, and we're here for you at every step along the way. And I would argue, especially in this high cost, high discount space, make a friend in financial aid.
Dino Koff:
Matt, absolutely. And if you're buying a house, if you're buying a car, if you're making any type of investment and you don't understand it, you ask questions. There's-
Matthew Hyde:
Yep.
Dino Koff:
Absolutely no reason not to reach out to a financial aid office to say, "I need help with X," or, "I don't understand Y," and follow up. And the one thing I'll quickly add is there are no surprises. If you fill out a net price calculator and work with the school, you should know your aid possibly ahead of time so that you know if you get in if this is going to be doable. And so feel free to reach out, stop in, Zoom. There's so many different ways to do it now.
Lee Coffin:
I'm going to end by repeating what Matt just said. Don't be quiet about what you don't understand, and I hope this conversation around deconstructing, explaining, modifying ed speak has been a useful translation for the terminology that populates the admission process and the way a student and parent, guardian, guidance counselor even, has to navigate that process. Diane, Dino, Matt, thanks as always for joining me on Admission Beat.
Dino Koff:
Awesome.
Matthew Hyde:
That was fun.
Diane Scott:
Thank you all.
Dino Koff:
Thanks for having us.
Matthew Hyde:
Thanks, Lee.
Diane Scott:
This is so great.
Matthew Hyde:
Thank you.
Diane Scott:
Always love learning from my colleagues.
Lee Coffin:
There we go. And we will be back next week with another episode as we start to dig into the nuts and bolts of applying. For now, this is Lee Coffin from Dartmouth College. Thanks for listening.